Directory · Building Underway · S1 · Episode 86

S1 · Episode 86

Brand positioning: did I get it all wrong

filmed 21 October 2026 · 5:26

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I talked through whether to use a Trojan horse marketing strategy to get business owners onto Underway instead of my current day-one positioning. Ryan, a business owner in California, signed up because he was starting an animation project, then asked if he could use Underway for his more established business, and that question made me rethink things. I'm getting plenty of landing page views from my Meta and X ads but losing money every day on them. I'm now considering testing a different angle with mature business owners, built around taking the content process off their hands, and nothing is decided yet.

Brand positioning: did I get it all wrong?

by Richard Lovatt · updated 21 October 2026

Not wrong, just expensive to buy on. My own positioning for Underway, don't miss day one, tests well in conversation but only converts someone the moment they are about to start a new project, which is rare to catch with ads. The fix I am testing is not a new product, it is leading with no editing and content handled for you, aimed at business owners with mature companies.

In short

  • Messaging that everyone understands is not the same as messaging that converts, because it depends on catching someone at one exact moment
  • Don't miss day one only lands if the person is about to start a project right now, which ads cannot reliably time
  • A single real conversation, with Ryan, surfaced a positioning gap no amount of landing page views showed me
  • The content-first pitch, we handle it for you, aims at business owners who already know they need content but find starting the process hard
  • I am testing this, not replacing the old message outright, because one piece of feedback is data, not proof

Doubting the positioning

I'm wondering whether I got it all wrong. Not the product, the messaging. From everyone I've spoken to, and yes it could be biased, nearly everyone understands it and says it clicks. There needs to be something like this on the market, they get all of that. But I think it's an expensive way of getting customers to use it, and that's a different problem from the message being wrong.

The gap is between understanding and converting. People can hear don't miss day one, nod, think that's cool, and still not be the person who signs up today. Agreeing with a message and being moved to act on it are two different things, and I'd been treating them as the same.

Filmed straight to camera, mid-thought, working through whether the positioning itself is the problem.
Filmed straight to camera, mid-thought, working through whether the positioning itself is the problem.

Don't miss day one: why timing is the whole message

The advertising is about finding people in that moment, because it's hey, don't miss day one, you can't film today tomorrow. Imagine Jeff Bezos building Amazon, we want to see the start. Everyone gets that the messaging is right. But what I think happens is people think oh that's cool, let me have a look around, let me sign up, give my email, but they're not in. It's rare to be in that moment where they're about to start a project.

That's the structural weakness. It's not that the line is wrong, it's that it only works on a narrow window of people, those about to begin, and finding someone in that exact moment means being in front of so many people that the chances of them feeling it there and then are so much less than something aimed at a bigger, steadier group.

The idea on screen: don't miss day one, the line the whole positioning has been built around.
The idea on screen: don't miss day one, the line the whole positioning has been built around.

Catching people at the right moment: what Ryan's call showed me

I spoke to Ryan yesterday, who signed up. He's a successful business owner in California. It hit home because he's starting an animation project, and he realised he needed exactly that kind of thing. He was impressed, thought it was really cool. That opened the door for me, because I was thinking this is the kind of person I need, but to find someone in that moment at the right time is so much harder than something else.

I'm recording this because these are the thoughts that brand owners and business owners have and never say out loud. Ryan also gave me feedback that wasn't really feedback, more a question: he said he has another business, his more mature one, and asked could he use it for that too. I realised that was the gap. Him needing to ask whether he could use it was telling, because I think he knew he could, it just wasn't positioned that way.

The idea, as it landed with Ryan: let me sign up, give my email.
The idea, as it landed with Ryan: let me sign up, give my email.

Could I use it elsewhere: the question that exposed the gap

Ryan asked, do you think it's a good idea to use Underway for my other business when I'm doing X, Y and Z. That question should never have needed asking. If the positioning only calls out starting a project and not missing the beginning, then anyone with an existing, thriving business has to do the mental work themselves of deciding whether this still applies to them.

All business owners probably do go by this. No doubt they think, if I get a new project, this would be good for that. They're probably interested, they probably have a look. I've got a hell of a lot of landing page views. But it's the next bit, the conversion, that isn't happening, and Ryan's question is the clue as to why.

Two ways framed on screen: this animation project against his other, more mature business.
Two ways framed on screen: this animation project against his other, more mature business.

Landing page views, no conversion: what the numbers were telling me

They probably have a look, I've got a hell of a lot of landing page views, but it's that next bit, the conversion, that isn't happening. That's the pattern I keep landing on: interest without action. People recognise the problem, agree it's real, and still leave.

Running ads every day on Meta and X is costing money, and when you're losing money every day it's a hard situation to just keep going. If someone stays and pays every month for a while it works out, the lifetime value could be good, but the gap between views and paying customers is where the budget actually disappears.

The result on screen: they probably have a look, named next to the gap in conversion.
The result on screen: they probably have a look, named next to the gap in conversion.

A Trojan horse approach: leading with content, not with day one

I'm really thinking about whether I have to change my positioning, or go with a Trojan horse method to get people to use it. For me it's how could I attract business owners who have a thriving business and just want to start documenting and creating content. I think a lot of business owners know they need to be doing content, forget about documenting for now, they know they need to create it. It's just the process of thinking about that which is hard.

So instead of the positioning being hey, document from day one, it becomes hey, don't worry about content, we sit down, we've got it all for you, we edit it, we ask you questions, and we put it all together. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I'm saying I feel like I'm going to have to test that out to business owners.

Forget documenting, on screen, next to the lesson: they need to be doing content.
Forget documenting, on screen, next to the lesson: they need to be doing content.

Business owners and content: why I think this group converts easier

Business owners with mature businesses have more money, and they also set up new projects all the time. I feel like they're an easier group to get onto the platform, because I make their life easier to create content, and that then sets them up for starting new projects too. It's not either or, the content-first pitch can still lead back to the day-one promise once they're using it.

This is a hunch built from one conversation, not a tested result. I wouldn't have thought of it unless I'd run these ads, got that customer in, and had the chance to speak to him directly. That's the value of running ads that lose money daily, it's data and feedback, even when the number on the page is going the wrong way.

Working through the business owner angle out loud, hands mid-gesture.
Working through the business owner angle out loud, hands mid-gesture.

Ad spend losing money daily: the cost of testing this out loud

It's pretty hard running ads every day on Meta and X, and it's costing money. If someone stays with me and pays every month, lifetime value could be good, but when you're losing money every day it's a hard situation to keep going. That's the honest backdrop to all of this: the positioning question isn't academic, it's being paid for daily in ad spend.

As long as I'm moving forward I think it's good, but it is making me evaluate these things. I have to take the learning lesson. I wouldn't have known to question the day-one message without a customer telling me, in his own words, that he had to ask whether it applied to him.

Mid-explanation, working through what the ad spend is actually buying.
Mid-explanation, working through what the ad spend is actually buying.

Questions people ask

What does Underway's don't miss day one positioning actually mean

It's the idea that nobody filmed Jeff Bezos building Amazon from day one, so Underway exists to make sure founders starting something now don't miss recording the beginning. It tests well when people hear it, they say it clicks and that there's a real issue there, but it only moves someone to act if they happen to be starting a project at that exact moment.

Why doesn't a message everyone agrees with always convert

Agreement and action are different things. People can look at an ad, think that's cool, let me have a look, let me sign up, give my email, and still not be in the moment the message is aimed at. Landing page views can be high while conversion stays low, because the message only fires for people about to start something right now.

Is a content-first pitch better than a day-one pitch for business owners

It's being tested, not proven. The reasoning is that business owners with established companies already know they need to be creating content, so the hard part isn't convincing them of the value, it's removing the thinking involved in starting. Leading with we handle the content for you may suit that group better than leading with don't miss the beginning.

How do you know when your positioning is wrong versus just expensive

If people consistently say the message hits home and the problem is real, but landing page views don't turn into signups, that often points to timing rather than a wrong message. In this case the positioning only lands on someone at the rare moment they're about to start a new project, which makes it expensive to buy at scale through ads.

What should you do with one piece of customer feedback like Ryan's

Treat it as a lead to test, not a verdict. One conversation surfaced a real gap, that an existing business owner had to ask whether the product applied to his other, more mature business, but it's one data point against a lot of ad spend and page views. The right next step is to test the alternative message, not overhaul everything on one call.

Read the transcript

Do you know what? Guys, I'm wondering and I'm thinking whether I got it all wrong. When I mean all wrong, I mean the messaging, the, the, the positioning, right? And I, I'll explain my thoughts behind this, right? I'm not saying my, my positioning doesn't work because I think from everyone I've spoke to, and yes, it could be biased, but literally from all the people I've spoken to about this idea, nearly everyone just understands and says it clicks. It just hits right. It's, it's an actual issue that people face. Um, there needs to be something like this on the market, right? I, I get all of that. But I think it's an expensive way of getting customers to use it, and I'll tell you why. So, for me, it's like the, the advertising or the messaging is, is about like finding people in that moment, 'cause it's like, "Hey, don't miss day one." You can't, you can't film today, tomorrow. You know, imagine re- Jeff Bezos building Amazon. We wanna see the start kind of thing. Everyone's like, uh, I get it. The messaging's like, yeah, absolutely right. But what it kinda, what I feel, at least I'm, I'm assuming this in some ways, is people think, number one, "Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I get it." Like, "Let me have a look around it. Let me sign up, give my email." But they're not in. It's like rare to be in that moment where they're- About to start a project. Do you know what I mean? Like, you, you kind of-- I feel like I kinda have to get someone at that very point where they're like thinking of starting a new project and this is the time. So it's like, boom. And that happened yesterday. I spoke to Ryan who signed up. He's a business owner. He's, he's a, he's a very successful business owner in California, I believe. And he was like: Hey, it just hit home because I'm starting this animation project, and it-- I, I just realized I need that kind of thing. And he, he was impressed by it. He, he, he thought it was really cool. But that kind of opened the door for me because I was thinking like: Oh, this is the kind of person I need. But like, to find someone in that moment at the right time, like you have to be in front of so many people, and the chances of them just feeling it there and then must be s- is so much less than something else, right? And I'm just recording this 'cause these are the thoughts that brand owners and, and business owners would have and just not ever s- speak it out loud, you know? And so I thought to myself: Okay, well, Ryan, he also gave me some other feedback. He-- it wasn't feedback per se, it was more so like he said: "Oh, well, you know, I, I actually have my other business," and this was his more mature one. And he was like: "You know, can I-- is this something I could use for that?" And I realized that was the feedback I was missing because him needing to ask whether he could use... It was more a rhetorical question. I think he knew he could, but it wasn't positioned that way. So he was like: "Oh, do you think it's a good idea to like use Underway for my other business when I'm doing X, Y, and Z?" And the thought must go be- through people's head. If they see Underway, they see the position, they see the ads And it calls out, it- the positioning is really about them starting a project and not missing the beginning. And so all business owners probably go by, they pr- no doubt they probably think, "Hey, you know, that if I get a new project, that's something I, I would be good." They're probably interested, they probably have a look. I've got a hell of a lot of landing page kind of views. Um, but it's like that next bit, the conversion. So, you know, I'm just recording this because I'm really thinking about do I have to change my positioning? Do I have to go with a Trojan horse method to get people to use it? Because, you know, for me it's like how could I attract the business owners like that who have a thriving business, who just wanna start documenting and creating content? And for me it's like, okay, there's a number of different ways. I think a lot of business owners know they need to be doing content. F- let's forget about documenting for now. They, they know they wanna, they need to create content. It's just the process of thinking about that is hard. So instead of the positioning might come instead of being like, "Hey, you know, document from day one," the positioning comes, "Hey, don't worry about content. We sit down, we got it all for you, we edit it, we ask you questions, and we put it all together." Right? So it's kind of slightly different positioning, and I'm not saying one's better than the other, I'm just saying I feel like I'm gonna have to test that out to business owners. Not only have they got more money, they have mature businesses, uh, not only do those kind of people also like set up new projects all the time, I feel like they're an easier... Those people getting onto my platform to use it and coming through because I make their life easier to create content, then sets them up starting new projects and stuff like that, you know? So, 'cause I'll be honest, like it's, it's pretty hard running ads every day, Meta and X and, and just like it's costing m- If someone stays with me and pays every month for a bit, like, okay, it works out. Lifetime value could be good, but you- when you're losing money every day, it's a hard situation to just keep going. Um, for me it's all data, it's all feedback. I'm learning, like I wouldn't have thought of this unless I ran these ads, got that customer in, had the chance to speak. So, you know, I have to take the learning lesson. As long as I'm moving forward, I, I, you know, I think it's, it's good, but it is making me evaluate these kind of things.

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Brand positioning: did I get it all wrong · Building Underway